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Interview with Malia from Millennial Mrktg

Enjoy the transcript from this recent episode to listen, click here.

Hayley Price (00:00:00) - Welcome to the Art Coaching Club podcast. I'm your host, Hayley Price, artist, owner of the online art Gallery, the scouted studio and business coach for artists with experience starting and running my own art business, growing an online art gallery and coaching artists internationally on how to grow their careers. I've learned the art world inside and out. I have made all of the mistakes so you don't have to. Every episode will be a little bit different, but I promise that each week I will show you how to tackle your biggest business challenges so you can get back in the studio doing what you love. Now let's get into it. Hello and happy Thursday. I am talking with Malia of millennial marketing today and I know you are going to love this episode because you always love a marketing episode. Those are, by and large, our most popular episodes, both with marketing specialists and any time artists dive deep into marketing strategies. And I know you're going to love this episode because Millennial marketing is a digital marketing agency that specializes in small businesses, so they're really tailored to working with individuals, small companies.

Hayley Price (00:01:05) - You know, it's not these big, lofty, crazy marketing strategies. It's really stuff that's tailored for people like you. And she really breaks it down for artists in this episode and just a couple of services they offer that I want to mention because I think they're really great and we talk about them in this episode is they do these one hour consulting meetings and so they basically break down, you know, how you can improve what you could be doing. And I really love that if you're a little bit more on a budget and can't hire a marketing agency, I think that's something that a lot of you could benefit from. But then they also have obviously marketing services as well, and they kind of have different tiers that I noticed on their website. So definitely could be something worth looking into. But I'm really excited for this episode because we break down every platform. So, you know, we go from Instagram to TikTok to Pinterest to YouTube to even threads, and we talk about what you need to be on, what you don't, how to decide, you know, what it looks like to be on each platform and what it takes to be successful on each platform.

Hayley Price (00:02:02) - And she's real, you know, she was like, if you don't like doing videos, you don't need to be on this platform. It's not the one key to success. And so we really talk about that go in depth. And I know you are going to love it. Before we officially dive in a couple of announcements, just a reminder, the membership spots close on Monday and they will not open again in 2023. So if you want to join the membership and get all the benefits that come with it, it only starts at $10 a month. This is your last opportunity, so please, please don't miss this chance. I will not open spots again until the new year and then I also want to announce that the last day to apply to the October Emerging Artist show with the scouted studio is Friday, the 25th of August. So sometimes artists tend to wait till the last minute. I'm just putting it out there, but I will not be accepting any applications after that date. We just have so many applicants.

Hayley Price (00:02:53) - I cannot make exceptions this year, so please get those in before the 25th and it's going to be an amazing show. I'm already excited about all the people that have applied, so definitely keep those things in mind. Mark your calendar, set reminders do not forget, because both of those are hard deadlines and will close next week. So I wanted to announce that. And with all of that, you know, last thing, remember to like subscribe leave a review that has allowed us to continue to be in a great position. We are currently number 24 for visual podcasts in the United States. I think we're also 25in Canada, which is pretty cool. So continually going up and we've been kind of steadily in the top 100, which is amazing. And that really comes from the ratings and reviews. So if you can continue to do that, if you haven't, that would mean the world to me and just subscribe. So you never miss an episode like these Thursday bonus episodes. And now that I've gotten all that off my chest, let's get into the marketing episode.

Hayley Price (00:03:51) - Great. Well, introduce yourself and then give a little background into you and your company. Millennial Marketing. Okay.

Malia Schreiber (00:03:58) - I'm Malia Schreiber. I own the company Millennial Marketing. We are a actually an international now remote marketing agency. So we specialize in digital marketing. So it's going to be anything social media, websites, email, anything you're doing from the computer to help promote your business. We have 12 people on staff now all over the country specializing in all kinds of different things, and we're five years in, so we're really happy to be growing at this pace.

Hayley Price (00:04:25) - Yeah, no, that's amazing. Well, I'm sure you work with lots of different types of businesses and people, but I kind of want to specifically talk about creatives and artists and what your thoughts are on how marketing kind of differs industry to industry. So like, what do we need to think about as artists when it comes to marketing our businesses?

Malia Schreiber (00:04:43) - Absolutely. And this question is so important for your audience because as artists, I think the most important thing is the visual aspect, right? Like that's what's really going to sell when it comes to social media and your website and things like that.

Malia Schreiber (00:04:55) - So I think it really is a key piece in making your marketing work. Is that visual aspect?

Hayley Price (00:05:02) - Definitely. Well, I think kind of the best use of our time today and what I know my listeners are going to want to listen to is actually just breaking down kind of all the different platforms and the different ways we can market ourselves that are out there, because I think a lot of people are really overwhelmed into What do I do? Do I need to do them all? Do I need to be everywhere? And I think that's stifling for a lot of people. And it's like, do we go deep with one? Do we try to do it all? And I'd love to hear kind of your thoughts on all this so we can definitely kind of break it down platform by platform.

Malia Schreiber (00:05:31) - Absolutely. Totally agree.

Hayley Price (00:05:33) - Well, I think. Probably Instagram is the most popular, especially for artists, because like you said, it's a very visual career. And Instagram is just easy, you know, I feel like we're used to it.

Hayley Price (00:05:43) - So I'd love to start with Instagram and how can artists best use Instagram? What's a great way to really market themselves there? And let's kind of let's kind of start by picking your brain with that platform.

Malia Schreiber (00:05:54) - Yeah, I'm glad we're starting with this because it is our baby. Like my team loves Instagram. We really are like true millennials and we just live on Instagram. But you're definitely right. There's so many platforms now and it's kind of hard to know as a business owner, as an artist, like where are you supposed to be putting your efforts? Because this isn't easy. It takes a lot of time, right? So we do want to focus on the platforms that make the most sense. And Instagram is definitely our top recommendation. There's huge, huge audiences, huge engagement levels, but Instagram has changed a lot, right? Like I'm sure you've been on Instagram for a hot minute now. I certainly have been. Have you been on for a while? Yeah. Yeah, you've been doing the thing.

Malia Schreiber (00:06:31) - Okay. So Instagram's changed a lot, right? We no longer have a chronological algorithm. We have an algorithm that's kind of choosing for you to show your audience what they think they're going to like, you know? So it's really important to play by Instagram's rules, if you will. So, number one, most important thing on Instagram, if you're messing this one up, you are just not going to be successful on this platform is consistency. So you have got to basically think to yourself how many posts per week I'm capable of getting out. If it's too great, if it's for, great. But you have to do that many posts every single week. So if you have like a great consistent month and then the next month you do half of that. All of the work you did the month prior is down the drain. So consistency is everything. I'm sure you know about that already.

Hayley Price (00:07:20) - Yeah, I'm posting. I try to post every day. I mean occasionally, like vacation, Christmas, you know, like things like the cracks.

Hayley Price (00:07:28) - But I really am. And that's why I tell people, I'm like, even if it's once a week, it's like, what does consistency look like for you? And you can always build from there.

Malia Schreiber (00:07:34) - Exactly. It's so important. And then another thing I'm sure you know as well is video. Video is unavoidable at this point. There's just no way to have a successful strategy without it in some capacity. So we really do for our clients, we usually are working with four posts a week for the average client. We're doing two videos per week and then two static posts per week, which is going to be like photos or carousels that you can kind of swipe through. And videos don't have to be as challenging as some some businesses make them or some accounts make them some businesses. And some people are really video focused. They know how to edit, They're really good at it. So they do that a lot. But it doesn't really have to be like that. Right? Right. So especially for artists, I think, you know, a piece that a lot of artists I'm seeing that are missing is just like time lapse videos.

Malia Schreiber (00:08:23) - If you're drawing, if you're creating, if you're painting, whatever you're doing, it takes no effort from you at all to just set up your phone on time lapse and just record what you're doing. And it seems so stupid kind of, but it really does perform well. So that's definitely a top recommendation for me. For artists.

Hayley Price (00:08:41) - Yeah, I love that because it's not extra work. I think that's the biggest thing. And I've talked to some people who, you know, totally do video all the time. I talked to people that are totally anti video and it's I think it's the ease. And for me, it was like I did a lot of videos at a point and I think I exhausted myself because I overthought it. And then when I started just doing like easy stuff and just showing up in a way that felt authentic, that wasn't five hours to make a 22nd clip. Like it's like getting an easy rhythm. You're like, Oh, this isn't as hard as it needs to be.

Malia Schreiber (00:09:11) - Exactly. And the other thing with video is repurposing, and I think that's a piece that when clients start to work with us, they realize that they've been missing that chunk because there's so much content that you make as an artist or as a business owner over the course of a year. Let's say there's so many photos that you have, there's so many pieces of video, there's so many graphics, all these things that you post and you use them one time and it just isn't. There's so many other ways to repurpose that content, you know? Right. So we definitely recommend reusing the stuff you already have from the past. Yeah.

Hayley Price (00:09:42) - What are some examples of like how to repurpose and reuse content?

Malia Schreiber (00:09:46) - Yeah, great idea. So for video specifically because think people have a harder time with video than regular posts for video specifically if you have photos, I have lots of clients that have photos from like five years ago and they're like, That's not really relevant to us anymore. So we feel like we can't use that content and it's just not true, especially from a user perspective.

Malia Schreiber (00:10:05) - We kind of want to see the transition of how the business has grown, how you've grown as an artist. So a great example of that would be like, you know, then and now. So the video piece that's just like, this is a picture or a video clip of what I was doing five years ago. And this is a picture, a video of what I'm doing now. That's hugely important.

Hayley Price (00:10:25) - Yeah, I love that. I mean, I have probably 3000 photos on my camera right now and that actually would allow me to use them. Exactly. It's not it's not super. Hard.

Malia Schreiber (00:10:35) - Right? Right. And I think once you start tapping into that, it's easier to think of ideas like that, right?

Hayley Price (00:10:40) - Totally. Well, kind of on the flip side, what are the mistakes you're seeing being made on Instagram and what are people kind of missing?

Malia Schreiber (00:10:47) - Yeah, mistakes, definitely The consistency thing I was just talking about. Also, I think people get in their head about wanting it to be so curated and so professional looking and frankly, it's just going to work so much better for you if you come at it as a real person and think about it as other real people on the other side of this, other customers, other people who can promote your your content for you, you know, so we're we're definitely seeing people making the mistakes of not engaging the correct way, not engaging authentically.

Malia Schreiber (00:11:16) - You know, engaging on social media is really important. They want you to spend time on the app. They want you to, like, comment, follow, share stories. And I'm seeing people missing that piece a lot.

Hayley Price (00:11:27) - Yeah, I've definitely noticed when I take a like I've used scheduling tools and stuff before to like allow me to be consistent. But if I don't, if I do that and then I don't go into the app, I'll notice a total drop off than if I'm actually like manually posting or even just if it's scheduled. But then I go in and I comment and I like other people's stuff and I go in and like sometimes the stories is where I show up a little bit more like authentically and like radically. And I think that works really well. Like the engagement on a story that I post, that's just me doing something that's not overly curated or a professional photo tends to do a lot better than if I try to post this like perfect thing.

Malia Schreiber (00:12:04) - Yeah, 100%. And so many artists and so many business owners miss that piece.

Malia Schreiber (00:12:08) - You know, I can tell you from our social media, the millennial marketing Instagram account, we are never wearing makeup and stories. We're always just like like barely keeping things together, just like going about our crazy hectic day, you know? And those are the pieces of content that just perform so much better. So I definitely recommend coming in there just authentically, just be you don't try to curate stories, don't try to think about it too hard. It'll be gone in 24 hours anyway.

Hayley Price (00:12:35) - Totally. What would you recommend to people that maybe aren't as comfortable, like having their face on the camera? Because I think some people are totally okay with that and some people are like, I don't know.

Malia Schreiber (00:12:45) - Yeah, my recommendation would be to get over it. It just is what it is. It just it has to be like that. And I think for artists, you do have, um, I would say a little bit more flexibility. You don't necessarily have to have your face involved in as many pieces of content.

Malia Schreiber (00:13:01) - It doesn't have to be so about you, you know, because it really is about the art usually, but you're just going to sell more. I mean, test it for a month, test it for three months, put your face out there, you know, more organically, more authentically, and then spend a month not doing that. And you'll see a huge, huge difference. People just trust people that they can see. That's just how humans work. Right?

Hayley Price (00:13:23) - And I definitely think of when I'm looking at other people's accounts, I like when they get on and I can actually see who they are and see who's talking. And I'm never like, She's not wearing makeup like.

Malia Schreiber (00:13:33) - Never, especially with all the filters and things like that available. Like it's just really not an issue anymore.

Hayley Price (00:13:38) - No, I got on yesterday and did I have my hair in a bun? I had just worked out and I was like, All right, guys. And then I was like, I looked at you.

Hayley Price (00:13:45) - Well, at least they know. I'm like, real.

Malia Schreiber (00:13:47) - Right? It is what it is. And people like that, they want to connect with other people like that, you know what I mean? So whereas if you have a really curated picture of your face with a piece of art, right, something you're proud of, that's great. And that probably will perform better than just a picture of a piece of art. However, if you go on there and you're just conversational and you're just talking, people are so much more likely to reach out and connect with you. So it's not just a like because that's not really what we're looking for anymore. Likes are kind of outdated currency on Instagram now, you know, So we're looking for more a deeper connection on social media, for sure.

Hayley Price (00:14:20) - Well, right. And if you ultimately want a sale out of it or a commission or a partnership or something, it's not really about the like it's about can we get people to actually message you or interact or join your email list or go to your website or take that next step? And I think a lot of that time that comes from actually like connecting with people versus just them, you know, Oh, she's follow her or she has a nice pretty feed.

Hayley Price (00:14:40) - It's like, you know, I actually like can relate to her. Therefore I want to support her and buy from her or him. Exactly.

Malia Schreiber (00:14:46) - Exactly. But yeah, I totally agree and think that, you know, from from my businesses perspective, obviously I can talk about lots of different industries and lots of different clients we've had over the years. But just from my business specifically, we go on there so authentically, as often as we can, because that's really what works for us and for a lot of businesses. But it just gives people this. This open door almost where they feel like they can just reach out and ask me a question they feel like they can. Even if we've never spoken before, I don't even follow them. They feel like it's approachable. Right? Right. Yeah, I completely agree.

Hayley Price (00:15:21) - And I feel like. So I have a gallery Instagram account and then I have the art coaching Instagram account and I feel like the interactivity interaction I get on the coaching account where I do show up a lot more.

Hayley Price (00:15:31) - Like as myself, I'm the face of the business. I'm pretty real. People can also hear my voice like through the podcast. I do feel like people feel like they know me more even if they haven't ever interact with you for because they hear my voice, because they see, you know, I'm doing stuff pretty often. And I think because of that, I get a lot more messages there that are a little more candid and casual because they feel like, you know, I'm not jumping over a hurdle to talk to this person. They're like, Oh, I feel like I know her already. Which would you want? You know, you want people to feel like they can easily interact with you.

Malia Schreiber (00:16:03) - Exactly. Yeah, totally agree. And that's definitely something that most businesses who come to me for help are missing that part, you know? Definitely.

Hayley Price (00:16:47) - Well, kind of thinking if somebody is on Instagram and they want to expand to a second platform and I know it's probably different person to person, what would you say is the next most popular or easiest?

Malia Schreiber (00:16:57) - Yeah, this is going to get mixed reviews. I know, but Facebook still, I'm not a Facebook girl personally, but it just is kind of one of those things you have to have. It's sort of like a second website in a sense, and it is hitting a demographic that isn't usually on the other platforms. People who are really Facebook people are just Facebook people, you know. So I would say that and also their Facebook owns Instagram for anybody that doesn't already know that. So if you are utilizing any scheduling stuff, you can schedule them right through the meta platform.

Malia Schreiber (00:17:27) - And it's both, you know, scheduled both things through one platform, which is easier.

Hayley Price (00:17:32) - Yeah, I definitely well, I use Facebook as I post on Instagram and then just have it also go to Facebook. But waterways to actually strategically use Facebook with a little more intention than what I'm doing.

Malia Schreiber (00:17:43) - Yeah, Yeah. And I'm in the same boat. I'm not generally a Facebook girl, but I will say that the people who are finding themselves spending more time on Facebook just for fun and that's where they're like naturally kind of pulled to more than Instagram. Facebook groups are like a goldmine. I mean, if you're already spending the time on that platform, Facebook groups can be incredible assets to your business. So I would definitely recommend that not only joining groups that are kind of like in your demographic, but also starting a group and kind of starting a community there.

Hayley Price (00:18:16) - Yeah, no, I think that's a great idea because it just opens you up to getting in front of a lot of people, which is something I think as the algorithm and stuff has changed on Instagram, it's harder to just naturally get in front of people and think something like a group kind of facilitates, all right, if you're in that group, you're already interacting with, you know, hundreds of people or however many people are in it.

Malia Schreiber (00:18:36) - Exactly. Totally agree. And also, Facebook has different features that a lot of other platforms don't have, like the events. You know, I think a lot of artists do a lot of, you know, weekend shows and things like that. Maybe you have like a gallery exhibit, something cool like that. Having an event on Facebook is such an easy way to reach people that you wouldn't normally reach.

Hayley Price (00:18:55) - No, I kind of forgot about Facebook events. I haven't.

Malia Schreiber (00:18:57) - You know.

Hayley Price (00:18:58) - That's a great feature.

Malia Schreiber (00:18:59) - They're legit.

Hayley Price (00:19:01) - Yeah. No, Facebook is great. And I do feel like I have some artists that started on Facebook and they're like, Haley, I did the Instagram thing and I'm still getting so many actual clients and commissions from that route, and I think it's a little bit of a just who your audience is like who you're trying to appeal to. But I don't think it's a lost a lost platform. And so I don't want people to sleep on Facebook.

Malia Schreiber (00:19:23) - No. And I do.

Malia Schreiber (00:19:24) - I'm you know, we're seeing more features on Instagram that are sort of feeling Facebook, you know, And it's no surprise since they're owned by the same company. But I'm I'm curious as a marketer to see how Instagram will evolve, to try to keep up with the features that Facebook has that it doesn't. You know.

Hayley Price (00:19:40) - Definitely. We'll kind of switching gears to one of the newer, maybe younger platforms. What about TikTok? Like where do we think that plays in who should be using it, Who doesn't need to? Where does that fall on the line of everything.

Malia Schreiber (00:19:52) - I love TikTok to. You spend so much time on TikTok. It's gross. But TikTok is exclusively video. If you're not already on it, there's nothing but video on that platform. And I will say from a marketing perspective, it does take an enormous amount more content to be successful on TikTok than it does on other platforms. So we're seeing the accounts that we're managing that are being really successful are posting like four times a day on TikTok.

Malia Schreiber (00:20:15) - So it is a lot of content. But if you're used to setting up your time lapse, if you're used to taking pictures of your of your art as you do it, if you're already, you know, taking a lot of content, TikTok can be really, really successful. So I know, I know when TikTok started, people were like, older demographics don't need this, you know? But I'm not really seeing that anymore. I'm seeing it a much wider demographic than when it started.

Hayley Price (00:20:39) - Yeah, I definitely agree. I think it's just a little bit different where I think Instagram's comfortable because it's like I can always fall back to just posting a picture of my artwork, right? You don't have that on TikTok. It's like you're going to have to constantly be putting out videos. And I think that intimidates artists because they're like, How much content can I make into videos? But I think there's a lot. I mean, I think you can come from the teaching aspect, think you can come from the, you know, you can do time lapse, you can show your process.

Hayley Price (00:21:03) - But I think also, you know, something big that I talk about is, is getting to know your customer and making them feel like they know you. And that can be another way to do that. I mean, a platform where you're showing up as yourself authentically. Like, I feel like tiktok's a little. More authentic in a lot of ways. It's a great way to connect with people.

Malia Schreiber (00:21:19) - Yeah. Again, if you don't already have TikTok or you're not already using it, Instagram is a much more curated platform than TikTok is. TikTok is not really interested in your filters. They're not really interested in you taking ten takes to get the perfect one. They just want you to post something, right? Yeah. So, yep. So we really like TikTok and also something that a lot of our clients are utilizing. Maybe they want a TikTok presence, but they're not ready to put all their eggs in that basket. If we're already posting 2 or 3 videos a week for them, we're just going to copy and paste those exact same videos over to TikTok.

Malia Schreiber (00:21:52) - So we're just using the exact same content on both platforms.

Hayley Price (00:21:55) - That was going to be my next question. Like, is that problematic or is that something that's worth trying to do?

Malia Schreiber (00:22:00) - I think it's worth trying to do, especially if you're already spending time on your personal accounts on TikTok. You know, like if you already enjoy the platform, you're spending time on it. I think it's definitely worth it to just like put that content over there. Excuse me, however it is. Um, they do have a lot of, I would say, rules or caveats, right? They don't want any watermarks from other videos. So if you have like an Instagram video that has the Instagram watermark, they don't want that watermark on TikTok because they are competitors. So there are some loopholes kind of. But definitely I think it's worth it.

Hayley Price (00:22:37) - Yeah, no, definitely. I think there's some I've like played around with TikTok. I haven't gone too far down that rabbit hole because I feel like I'm I'm like, I got to take it one step at a time here.

Hayley Price (00:22:47) - But do feel like there's a lot of potential there. And I feel like you're definitely right. More and more people are getting on the platform. It's not as much of a because in the beginning I feel like I was like, do I need to be on this? It might be a little bit of a younger crowd. Like, is that who I'm trying to reach? A lot of artists were asking me that and now I feel like it is. There's a lot more people on it. So you can find your audience, even if your audience maybe isn't that younger, like 20 and down or whatever.

Malia Schreiber (00:23:11) - Exactly. We all totally agree. And you know, for you specifically, maybe not. Um, this probably isn't beneficial for every artist, but for you specifically, if you're recording all these podcasts already, just record the video as well as the audio of these Zoom calls and then chop that up and throw it on TikTok. Like it doesn't have to require too much thought. You know.

Hayley Price (00:23:30) - I know I was actually talking to I was talking to someone about it or I heard it on a podcast.

Hayley Price (00:23:35) - I can't even keep up. But he was saying it was podcast because he was saying he does the exact same thing. And he's like, I just started putting them on YouTube and I started chopping them up and putting them on TikTok, and then I started chopping them up and putting them on into reels and I was like, okay, that is a decent amount of work, but not really. It's like you do, you know, let's say an hour interview and then you chop it into like all this different content that you can use in all these different places and mean that's really strategic.

Malia Schreiber (00:23:58) - Yeah. And especially if you have that plan already in place like this is what I want to do. It's very easy to outsource something like that, you know what I mean? Whether it's a team like mine or just like going on Fiverr and finding somebody who can do it, it's going to take them an hour a week, you know what I mean? It's not incredibly intensive for somebody that does this all day anyway.

Hayley Price (00:24:15) - Great. Yeah. No, totally. Well, kind of going off that. Let's touch on YouTube because I know it is still like I think people forget about YouTube, but it is a huge platform. Obviously it's a little bit different, but what are your thoughts on YouTube?

Malia Schreiber (00:24:28) - I totally agree. YouTube is massive and people literally forget that it's a social media platform. I think at this point we're we're all kind of thinking of it as like the Internet, like as, you know, sort of a web search tool rather than a social media platform. YouTube is still super, super valuable. And in fact, the the businesses that I know that have put their eggs in that basket are seeing significantly higher yields than they would from other platforms. So it's definitely worth it if you have the content. It's difficult for for artists and business owners that aren't already creating video content. You know, it's it's a big task, I think. But if you already are 100% worth it.

Hayley Price (00:25:10) - Yeah, I've been thinking about that because I think I read it's like one of the biggest platforms in terms of users, if not the biggest.

Hayley Price (00:25:18) - And I was like, why do we I mean, I I'm like, Oh, don't go on Facebook. And I'm like, I guess I don't go on Facebook and like scroll per se, but the amount of videos I watch to learn how to do something or, you know, you Google it and I'm like, Oh, I'll just watch the YouTube video. Yeah. I'm like, I'm on that platform every day.

Malia Schreiber (00:25:32) - Absolutely. And you know, for a lot of artists, I don't know how many are in this group for you, but I find that a lot of artists are interested in like courses and in teaching their audience how to do what they're doing and getting paid for that. And YouTube is amazing for stuff like that.

Hayley Price (00:25:49) - Definitely. It's a great way to show your expertise and again, show up and show your face and people want that. So, yes, absolutely. And I think if you picked to kind of go that route, it'd be so easy to say, I'm going to put the time into making these long form videos that I can again, then chop up into short form content.

Malia Schreiber (00:26:06) - Yeah, exactly. Repurposing If you can master repurposing, you are miles above your competition, you know what I mean? So it really makes sense to start with a long form video. And then chop it up and use it for the short term platforms like Instagram and TikTok.

Hayley Price (00:26:20) - Yeah, no, I love that. Well, I want to talk about kind of social media, not a social media platform. But I think a lot of people talk about Pinterest and I know it's more of a search engine, but what are your thoughts on Pinterest and is that something you're still using?

Malia Schreiber (00:26:33) - Yeah, I was hoping we'd talk about this, especially for your demographic. I think artists are missing a huge boat by not utilizing Pinterest because it's such a visual platform and it's such a great search engine, like you said. And I think Instagram is doing what it can to almost keep up with Pinterest as far as their algorithm is set up. So I definitely recommend it. And there can be so many just pictures. It doesn't have to be really thought out.

Malia Schreiber (00:26:58) - Curated content. You can just snap a photo, throw it on there. It doesn't even really need a caption, you know what I mean?

Hayley Price (00:27:04) - Well, and I love that it stays up there forever and it can get repin and it can get reshared. And I actually just I have two accounts. I have the galleries account, which gets like an insane amount of views and I don't do any it's like 400,000 a month and I don't do anything just because it's been around for five years. And it just started one like three, two months ago for my coach, like for the podcast and stuff. And it's already getting like over 1000 views a month. And I'm like, I don't really I post like two things a day. It's not crazy and it's not like I'm doing anything. It's like I literally just put up a photo and say like podcast coming out or something and then people will reshare that. So it is a platform that for the work that you put in. I love the longevity of it.

Malia Schreiber (00:27:47) - Yeah, I totally agree. And from a marketing perspective, Facebook, Instagram, some of these other platforms, they really do require some marketing expertise. They require some kind of knowhow on how to use these platforms. Pinterest is like the Wild West in a sense, you know what I mean? Like, you literally don't need to know how to do anything. You just throw that stuff up and it hits.

Hayley Price (00:28:06) - Definitely. Well, what do you think about like the newer platforms hitting the stage? Like I know Threads just came out and there was the talk about lemonade or whatever that one was for a while, like how do we navigate when something new comes to the table? Because I know so many people were like, Oh, I wish I got on Instagram early, but also how do we not just throw all of our eggs in this new basket? And then like, what if it doesn't take off? It's not worth our time.

Malia Schreiber (00:28:28) - Yeah, great question. Threads is new if you don't already know.

Malia Schreiber (00:28:32) - Threads is Twitter for Instagram basically. So the reason we like threads from a marketing perspective is because when you join threads, you already have the whole audience that you've already built on Instagram. So it's not like you're starting from zero, you know? And we really love that. My opinion as a marketer is that when new platforms come out and I said this about TikTok when it came out to when new platforms come out, we really don't need to look at those platforms from a business sense. It's not in a position to be handled by businesses. You know, it needs time to kind of get its feet on the ground and figure out how people want to use it before we can decide if it's worth using it for our business. Now that TikTok has been around for a while, it's definitely worth using for your business, right? But Threads is brand new, and Threads is definitely not a place to be promoting anything you're selling, you know? Yeah. So if you want to go on and kind of use threads as almost like a diary for your work and it's really just not a place where you're planning on making money.

Malia Schreiber (00:29:26) - It's a place where you're planning on kind of writing down how you're growing, then it's a great way to use it. But I definitely wouldn't put all my eggs in any new platform baskets.

Hayley Price (00:29:35) - Well, I think that helps because I think people are so scared about like missing the boat. But also caution people, you got enough going on already, right? Right. Don't need to just attack the next new thing.

Malia Schreiber (00:29:46) - Yeah. You're already in a boat.

Hayley Price (00:29:49) - Exactly. What would you say? You know, obviously we have all these platforms. They're a great way to grow, expand our audience. But what about, like, the next step? Like getting people to your website, getting people to your email list? Like, how do we use all these different platforms to actually convert?

Malia Schreiber (00:30:01) - Yeah, marketing stuff, right? You got to have a call to action. So it's great to show people what you're working on. It's great to show people your face. That's all great to be showing up, right? But you have to tell your audience what you want them to do.

Malia Schreiber (00:30:14) - You have to give them some incentive to do it right. So there has to be some kind of, hey, on my website you can check out this stuff to purchase or this is a great gift for Christmas or you know what I mean? There has to be some kind of incentive other than, Oh wow, look what they're doing.

Hayley Price (00:30:30) - Right? What would you say the balance is between? Because I think this is something a lot of artists in particular struggle with, and I'm sure businesses kind of across the board. But the balance between selling and like being salesy because obviously you have to let people know that you're selling but paired with like you just showing up authentically, being yourself, all of those kind of things.

Malia Schreiber (00:30:50) - Yeah, I think if you think about it too much, you're going to do it wrong, you know, think and especially the way the algorithms work now, Um, you know, very few people that are following you are actually going to see the content you put out. That's just the way it works.

Malia Schreiber (00:31:03) - So you don't really have to worry about saying things too often to be annoying or not saying them enough. Just kind of say them as it comes up naturally, you know?

Hayley Price (00:31:11) - Yeah, I like that. And also something you said about not everyone seeing everything you. Host. I also feel like that takes the pressure off sometimes of every single post to be perfect. Sometimes it's like I'm just going to put this out there and if it's cringe and I'm like, Oh, that was a little embarrassing. It's like, okay, whatever. You know, half of my audience. No, not even probably like 10% of my audience saw it. And then you just knew.

Malia Schreiber (00:31:30) - Exactly, exactly. And, you know, so many people that I talk to are feeling the same way how, you know, there's so many. Let me think. Want to read this? Think. There's so much there's always been so much pressure in social media to put out content that's going to perform well. But you and I have both met dozens of business owners, dozens of artists over the years, that some of their best performing content is the stuff they didn't even think about.

Malia Schreiber (00:32:00) - It's the stuff they just kind of posted and was just like a thought and gone in the wind and it blew up, you know?

Hayley Price (00:32:07) - Definitely. And I think that's the key. It's like not overthinking it, being yourself and also not getting down if something doesn't do well. I mean, I have an account with a lot of followers and sometimes a post will get five likes and I'm like, You know what? Whatever. It's fine. I don't I don't think it's because the post was bad, the art was bad, I was bad. It's like it's just it is what it is. The algorithm's weird move on to the next. Like, I don't let that stuff bother me. Obviously think when you're first starting out your business, it's easier to get stressed about those kind of things. But again, I don't look at metrics like likes and follows. I mean, obviously you want to grow, but I look at are people commenting, Are people DMing me? Are people actually going to my website or joining my email list? Because that's what makes your business run.

Malia Schreiber (00:32:49) - Yes. And you know, I'll say this till I die and I'm buried. But the only metric that really counts if you go into your Instagram analytics or your insights or anything like that, the only one that really counts is website taps. Totally the only one.

Hayley Price (00:33:02) - Yeah. And I think people forget that. Whereas like I'll go because I do links and stuff in my stories all the time and I'll just go to my source. I don't, I'll look at how many people saw the story. I don't look at any of that. I just go straight to scroll down. Link clicks. Yeah, this one got 17. Like, what did I do differently? Or this one got two. What should I do? You know, it's that's the first thing I go to. And even if I mean, this is what I also tell people, like even if it's one click, but that one click might actually convert. I mean, think about think people get again caught up in the numbers. But it's like, think if that many people walked into your store or walked into your home like sometimes 20 doesn't seem like a lot.

Hayley Price (00:33:35) - But I'm like, if you have 20 people walking into a store, you'd be like, All right. Like, this is a lot of people that are interested enough to take the next step. And I think thinking of it that way, too, is really helpful.

Malia Schreiber (00:33:44) - Absolutely.

Hayley Price (00:33:46) - Yeah. Well, the last thing I kind of want to touch on is email. So you are kind of a digital agency. How does email come into play and how can people use that strategically to, you know, converse with their audience?

Malia Schreiber (00:34:00) - Yeah, I just had a class on this last week and I'm always so surprised that people just think email is dead.

Hayley Price (00:34:06) - It's not dead. It's like my biggest source of my business.

Malia Schreiber (00:34:10) - Everybody that's utilizing it, it's their biggest source of business. Like email is kicking ass for real. If you're not utilizing it, you are absolutely missing a boat and it requires so little work, you know, they're really not difficult to put together. They're not difficult to send out and they convert so much better.

Malia Schreiber (00:34:26) - And I think it's this psychological VIP mentality almost, you know, I think when you get an email, it feels so much more personal in a sense than it does if you just see some random content on Instagram and think that's why it works so well.

Hayley Price (00:34:41) - Definitely well and feel like I think people are worried about being spammy, but I'm like, if you're an artist, realistically you're not sending the Bed Bath and Beyond like 12 emails a day. It's like, right, one a month, you know? Or even if it's one a week, it's like that is not spamming people. And what I find with email, even when I get them, it's like I only subscribe to people I really love and then I'm interested in and I want to read their content. And if it's something that's interesting to me and they have new artwork, don't I want that coming in my inbox versus it's so easy to scroll past or not see something on something like Instagram or at least email, you know, it's getting to them.

Hayley Price (00:35:15) - And so, I mean, my at least my metrics, just for an example, when I launch a new collection of art, it's like maybe I get one sale from Instagram, but probably 90% comes directly from email. And so it's almost like I could probably not post on Instagram and get nearly the same amount of sales just for my email list.

Malia Schreiber (00:35:33) - Exactly. I totally agree. So we're telling people at the very least you should be sending out one email a month at the very most, one email a week and that's somewhere in that range is usually perfect. And we use flow to send all of ours out. We use MailChimp and a couple of other things, but Flow Desk is really nice and we do have a promo code for that. If you want me to send it over for your your listeners as well. So it's 50% off the first year.

Hayley Price (00:35:57) - Yeah, that'd be great. I can definitely link that in the show notes because I know I feel like especially for Artists Flow Desk is, which I wish I use what I'm like so deep in my platform that I'm like, I have like too scared to switch, but I feel like Flow Desk is so beautiful and easy to use.

Hayley Price (00:36:14) - Like, I think some of the other platforms are a little clunky and it's hard to make it look good. And I think as an artist especially, you want your email it to reflect the quality of your work and love that they make it super easy to like set up flows and automations. It's not like all this like weird back end kind of coding, feeling stuff. It's like, Exactly. You want them to get an email three days later. Here's exactly how you do that, you know?

Malia Schreiber (00:36:36) - Exactly. Yeah. And that's why we like it too. We recommend it to all of our clients, our business owners who are not necessarily tech savvy, you know, because it's almost like Canva for email. It's just like so pretty, like you said, so user friendly. There's just very little work involved in it.

Hayley Price (00:36:51) - Right? Last thing on email, how do you recommend people kind of build up an email list if they're starting from scratch? Like what are tips to grow an email list?

Malia Schreiber (00:36:58) - My favorite tip is a pop up on your website, especially when it's delayed by a couple of seconds.

Malia Schreiber (00:37:03) - So when somebody lands on your website, they see your homepage for maybe 3 to 5 seconds and then the pop up comes and maybe says, you know, 10% off if you sign up for our email list. Or here's a free download of how to paint with acrylics or whatever, whatever freebies you might have that you could put on the website. We love that for capturing emails. We also love that Instagram has links and has, um, you know, question stickers in stories now. So. You mean probably once a month at least. We put up an Instagram story that says we're sending out an email tomorrow. If you haven't joined our list, throw your email right here and then we just manually put them in.

Hayley Price (00:37:40) - Right and think it's just incentivizing people with like why they should join the list. I think the pop up is great because you either give them a freebie or you know, I have the 10% discount code on my site and that's probably by and far the way I get the most emails because people are coming to the site to buy.

Hayley Price (00:37:53) - They're like, Why wouldn't I say on artwork, that's not an expensive item. And then I do the story thing all the time because I'll say, you know, I have this email coming out tomorrow. They get first look, first choice, first access to purchase, whatever it is. Do you want to join? And people that are interested in purchasing, obviously they'll drop their email in, right?

Malia Schreiber (00:38:11) - Yep. Love it.

Hayley Price (00:38:12) - Yeah. So I think it's talking about it. I think a lot of people are like, No one's joining my list. I'm like, You got to tell them it's there and you got to. Yeah, a little bit.

Malia Schreiber (00:38:20) - Exactly. And I feel that way about a lot of things in marketing is that they business owners, artists, we do all these things to grow our businesses and to sell our work, but we don't tell anybody about them.

Hayley Price (00:38:31) - Well, I think we're scared. I think it's like this fear of being salesy, but it is we are in a selling position.

Hayley Price (00:38:37) - I mean, you do to an extent, have to be a little salesy.

Malia Schreiber (00:38:40) - Yeah, you do. Or you can hire a marketer that will do it for you.

Hayley Price (00:38:43) - Yes. Well, okay. Want to kind of transition and talk about that. So if someone were to work with you or another kind of like marketing firm, what would that look like? And at what point should someone consider that?

Malia Schreiber (00:38:54) - Yeah, we do things a lot differently than a lot of our competitors because we are small business focused and we are focused on kind of starting at the ground level with you and growing with you. So ideally, you know, you pay us whatever whatever makes sense for your budget and we fit as many things as we can that we are our highest recommendations inside that budget. But we do offer a lot of different services and it does depend on the business and the business owner what services make the most sense. So for social media content, one way that we differ from our competitors is we do create the content a month in advance.

Malia Schreiber (00:39:24) - So you only have to look at content one time every month rather than every week or every day being like, Can we post this? Can we post this, you know, which is just like a lot of time, right?

Hayley Price (00:39:35) - I love I love planning ahead and think too, especially with artists like so many people came into this thinking they want to stay in their studio and they want to paint. They're like, I didn't sign up for this to spend half the day or more at my computer on my phone. And so I think understanding how to buy back your time and only you can create the work. So if you're inundated with commissions and all of this stuff, you don't have time for marketing a lot of the times. And so understanding what your time is worth to and when to hire out I think is really, really smart and really strategic.

Malia Schreiber (00:40:04) - Yeah, I think in the same sense that people are listening to your podcast, you have to invest in your business in a certain to a certain degree.

Malia Schreiber (00:40:10) - We do also offer consulting services, which is just like one hour a month and we can talk to you about ways that you can do your own marketing and your own sales, or you can hand it off to us. There's lots of different levels that you can work with a company like ours to make sure that you're hitting the right demographic and you're actually able to sell the work that you're working so hard to create.

Hayley Price (00:40:27) - Yeah, and I love that idea of consulting services because I do think I mean, not everyone, but there are some artists I know that definitely have the capability, is extremely creative and good with a camera and all these things and it's like but they're like, I haven't done this before, so if I could just talk to someone to like, tell me, am I on the right track? Am I doing it right? Am I thinking about this right? You know, if you don't have a background in something like marketing, a lot of these concepts are foreign. You know, you're like, Luckily I took an ad class and like focused in marketing in college, but if I didn't mean, I wouldn't know what I was doing.

Hayley Price (00:40:59) - It's not like the stuff is just obvious a lot of the time.

Malia Schreiber (00:41:02) - Right? And even from your perspective, you took these classes in college, so you do feel like you have this knowhow, but how much has it changed since then?

Hayley Price (00:41:08) - Well, also, yeah, I mean, they teach you the broad like know your customer and like here are some things to think about. They don't teach you like here's how to post on Instagram and basic stuff.

Malia Schreiber (00:41:17) - Like you're gonna actually run an ad.

Hayley Price (00:41:18) - Dated as soon as you say it.

Malia Schreiber (00:41:20) - Exactly. It's so true. So we definitely recommend consulting at the very least for every business just because this stuff is changing. I mean, we have full time jobs keeping up with the changing world that is marketing. So we can't even imagine being not in this world and trying to keep up with it, you know, totally.

Hayley Price (00:41:37) - Well, how can people actually, like, sign up to work with you? What is your website? How can they find you? How can people learn more about you?

Malia Schreiber (00:41:43) - Yeah, it's millennial marketing.

Malia Schreiber (00:41:45) - So millennial spelled out and then TG and then our Instagram is the same, the same at and we're super obviously super active on social media, so you can definitely find us there, but we would definitely recommend just setting up like a quick call so we can talk about what would be the best strategies for you in your business.

Hayley Price (00:42:02) - Yeah, no, I love that and I'll probably be reaching out because I'm definitely like, I feel like I'm I don't know if other people feel this way, but like, I'm doing it all and I kind of get it. But there's definitely periods where I'm like, I'm spinning my wheels and I could definitely be more efficient. Like, I'm not totally lost. Like I've been doing it long enough to kind of know what I'm doing. But if I think if I could talk to someone and just get like a strategy. Yeah. Could be that can be moving a lot faster, 100%.

Malia Schreiber (00:42:27) - And there's just so many easy, easy things for every business, every artist to delegate.

Malia Schreiber (00:42:31) - There's so many little things you could easily just hand off and not even think about them.

Hayley Price (00:42:36) - Definitely. Well, this has been so helpful. Is there anything I'm forgetting? Is there any big, big tip?

Malia Schreiber (00:42:42) - Well, there's so much we could be talking about.

Hayley Price (00:42:44) - Like there's so many directions, but I feel like it's so helpful that we kind of broke down every platform and just kind of like how to think about marketing in general. But I do want to conclude with like one overarching lesson or tip or something that you can give the audience that might help them kind of move their business forward from a marketing standpoint.

Malia Schreiber (00:43:02) - Just turn the camera on. Turn the camera on. Don't even think about it. Just set it up and start recording. And you're going to find lots of different ways to use this video clip that you didn't think was going to have any purpose. Just turn the camera on.

Hayley Price (00:43:13) - Yep. Think that's a great piece of advice and maybe a challenge I'll encourage all my listeners to do today.

Hayley Price (00:43:18) - I'm like, Tag me and homework if you did it. Um, but yeah, no, I think that's great. Well, thank you. Thank you so much for taking the time to do this and sharing all of your knowledge. I know my listeners will love it.

Malia Schreiber (00:43:30) - Yes. Thank you so much for having me.

Hayley Price (00:43:33) - Thank you so much for listening to today's episode. I will be back on Tuesday with another interview with artist Daisy and Dixon, and it is a good one. I know y'all are going to love it. So subscribe so you never miss an episode.


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